10 Questions With…Steve Hackman

Composer and conductor

You’ve brought Biggie, Tupac and Beyoncé to The Phoenix Symphony in the past. Why was Kendrick Lamar the right choice for this season’s finale?

Kendrick is a creative genius at the height of his powers, and seems like he’s going to be that for quite a while. Pairing him with Stravinsky — one of the most barrier-shattering classical composers of all time — felt very right. Funnily enough, they share the same birthday, June 17.

When did you first realize Stravinsky’s “Petrouchka” and Kendrick’s “DAMN.” were telling the same story?

I was originally looking at “To Pimp a Butterfly,” one of the most groundbreaking albums of my lifetime, but then I got under the hood with “DAMN.” and saw this show-within-a-show theme. Kendrick uses a mechanism where a gunshot moves us into a fantasy world, and “Petrouchka” has a literal puppet stage on the real stage. I realized I could go in order — song by song and movement by movement — which I’ve never been able to do with a fusion work before.

How hard was it to make the tracklist of a modern hip-hop album match a century-old ballet?

It was just luck that the narrative overlap was so natural. When we see the Moor’s bravado on stage in the ballet, Kendrick’s “HUMBLE.” is playing, which is all about bravado versus humility. When we are introduced to the puppets, we hear “DNA.” The DNA of the two works just matched up.

For a Kendrick fan who has never stepped foot in Symphony Hall — or a subscriber who hasn’t heard “DAMN.” — what is the most surprising thing about the show?

It’s usually the case that people are there for one or the other, but Kendrick fans are creatively erudite — they are into “high art” because Kendrick is high art. It is a rare person who knows both the album and the ballet thoroughly enough to track how they mix. To me, that’s an opportunity. It’s a chance to go down the rabbit hole and discover something new. I wish we could play it two nights in a row, because once your curiosity is piqued, the second listening experience is totally different.

“Petrouchka” is about puppets discovering humanity, while “DAMN.” wrestles with identity. Why do those themes feel urgent right now?

Both ask existential questions. “Petrouchka” asks who is more cursed: the puppet or the puppet master? In today’s world, whether we’re scrolling on our phones or feeling desensitized to everything happening, we need to get back in touch with what it is to be human.

What is the biggest misconception about the orchestra that you like to debunk?

People think classical music has to be this silent, rigid experience. In Stravinsky’s or Beethoven’s time, audiences were interactive. They’d clap between movements or cheer.

It is also important to mention the soloists, because they are right there up front and they are brilliant. We have two rappers, a singer, bass and drums — the audience always falls in love with them. It breaks the “fourth wall” and makes the audience part of the dialogue.

Kendrick’s lyrics are famously dense — he was the first non-classical artist to win the Pulitzer Prize for Music. How do you translate that “wickedness or weakness” into orchestral sound?

I’m “recomposing” rather than just arranging. I take a harmonic device or a motif from Stravinsky and use it as a strand of DNA to create a completely new organism that supports Kendrick’s message. Because we have a rapper and a singer on stage, it feels authentically informed on both sides.

Your concerts are famous for getting audiences dancing in their seats. Does that ever distract you while you’re conducting?

I love it. When the drums get going on “DNA.” or when the vocals start on “LOVE.,” it breaks the wall and makes the audience feel seen. That energy carries over — you might get people gasping or cheering during the Stravinsky, which I love. It makes the music feel more alive

You’ve moved away from calling these “mashups.” Why is that?

The term “mashup” suggests something surface-level, like what you’d see on “Glee.” These works are integrally combined to show that Kendrick Lamar is every bit as brilliant and as much of a genius as Stravinsky.

Do you think audiences leave with answers to the big questions the show asks?

I think they leave thinking about their purpose. Kendrick talks a lot about faith and spiritual anchors. By the end, I hope the audience starts to wonder, “What is the difference I want to make in the world?” The Phoenix Symphony will perform “Igor DAMN Stravinsky” on May 29-30. To learn more or buy tickets, go to phoenixsymphony.org.